Im not a Senior AME, Ive only been one for a year. A pilot might reason, for example, that the antidepressant he's taken for months hasn't caused any side effects and actually makes him more mentally fit to fly, a safer pilot. The AME also cannot read their minds, so he cannot go beyond a reasonable interpretation either to help with these questions. Thank you for allowing me to share. When the whole 3rd class medical requirement is seen in a larger context, its absurdity can be seen. Trying to fix an accidental lie on my medical. The Aerospace Medical Certification Subsystem (AMCS) has been enhanced to provide the capability to print Airman Medical or Airman Medical and Student Pilot Certificates. instead of just listening to the engine, watch the instruments that monitored the engine. Ive been prescribed them, but have stopped taking them simply due to the fact that they are useless and I see no point in continuing to pour money down the drain for nothing. If the FAA finds out that you failed to disclose something that you should have disclosed, not only does it mean that you can lose your license, but you may also face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. If your application passes AMCDs scrutiny, the certificate your AME issued will remain valid for a period of time determined by your age and the type of certificate you applied for. Anonomous, Willy post had only one eye should he have been grounded.??? The 3rd class medical crosses the line where freedom is unreasonably denied in the pursuit of absolute safety. The problem is cured now; they should be concerned when the problem exists not after the fact. Pilots that I talk to share the same dreams as I do and we all began chasing the dream at an extremely young age. So if there is cause, e.g a call to the FAA's hotline, an investigation will occur, and these will be seen and rather quickly. Many pilots have waited months or years for their medical certificates because each new record they provide to justify their medical certificate eligibility reveals another ailment they did not disclose before. The whole thing is about safety but the FAA has never proven the need for the medicals, especially the third class, it was just randomly instituted one day a long time ago. Hmm cant spell worth a darn mostly dumb fingers will that get me rejected??? I mean no offense, but other adults telling another adult whether or not to disclose something on a medical just doesn't seem right. However, if you are involved in an accident, incident, or disciplinary action, you can bet that the FAA and the necessary authorities will take the time to investigate, and things you didnt disclose will come out. Because the measures necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling. He issued my medical with a waiver. Most get grounded for a year? I just left the Marine Corps and want nothing more than to begin my flight training, but I still cant help but wonder about the outcome, especially after all I have read on this thread. He knew it. If you think your AME charges too much, find someone else. Took the FAA medical (stand on this leg, stand on that leg can you see anything out of this eye, can you see anything out of that eye). No, I have never lied on the medical application because I understood the ramifications in the event of an accident. Ask those young people who posted personal info online and then got turned down for a job interview because of those posts they placed years ago. Everyone lies technically. However, I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent. I am now 75 years old, and the FAA continues to demand increasily more stringent testing to get the isssuance. How about the person that might have some minor anxiety issues? Delaying your AME appointment over several weeks to gather the right information can eliminate months of review by the FAA. Beyond criminal penalties and keeping your pilots license, there are many other reasons to be forthright with your FAA Aviation Medical Examiner (AME), but for now just as a thought experiment consider that you choose to falsify your medical certificate application. For over 50 years, pilots turned to Richard L. Collins for his unique perspective on the challenges and rewards of flying light aircraft. But, it was not the fault of the FAA, it was mine for not verifying the doctors statement before submitting it. Some Pilots tend to lie some just do not get medicals. I am working with a private party who specializes in this sort of thing and he cant really give me definitive answers either; just educated opinion and guidance. I was just having so much fun and I didnt realize just how difficult it was going to be. I am not sure whether the doctors are always correct or what specifically they are looking for to justify one pilot is medically fit while another is unfit. So the Medical certification system is statistically, virtually, perfector..redundant AS LONG AS you are in a multi-crew aircraft. The smart ones do. I stopped learning to fly as I did not have the additional funds to have the CAA medical. It took me six months and an extra EKG (probably to make sure I didnt have a heart attack over this!) Its possible that a pilot could fill out a MedXpress form to the best of their knowledge and still leave something off that could be revealed in an investigation. Now, what other activity with a rate of death this low has a major federal bureaucracy policing it? I truly believe that if we allowed a 3rd class medical on only a drivers license we would be just as safe as we are today; and pilots would be in even better health because they would feel free to see their doctor again. Get thorough guidance on how to proceed. good for 2 years. Wiley Post would have never passed a physical. Ultimately, a yes response to 18m. What you didnt? Brian is absolutely right. Theres also the issue of things that a doctor may speculate on that they have no training or qualifications to formally diagnose. He did not disclose any of his medical issues to the AME, and passed his medical in 2011. The FAA revised 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. drivers license as medical qualification.. Note, denial is different from deferral. If one does lie this is an example of what could happen facing fines of up to $250,000,and possibly up to 5 years of federal imprisonment,and certificate revocation. On the other hand, the FAA medical system is complex, expensive, and difficult to support with data showing lives saved, etc. Period. The Aviation Medical is the most expensive physical exam I have ever had and also the least thorough medical exam I have ever had. Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Globalpilot, Oct 6, 2018. It sure would eliminate a lot of phone calls and digging through files for me. The absurdity of these medicals resides in the tiny number of casualties from medical incapacitation, compared to most other activities requiring no medical. Driving While Impaired (DWI) from alcohol, drugs, texting and exhaustion is obviously a serious problem and every driver self certifies, there is no evidence in the National Traffic Safety Data Base, that accidents caused by preexisting health conditions and the medications used for their treatment, is a major problem. You can ask the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute for statistics on fatalities in which medical conditions were either the direct cause or a contributing factor. Assuming you appropriately responded to one of these three questions, your application was likely deferred and the FAA sent you a letter, requesting medical records. An example is the FAAs recent rule change on anti-depressant use. My new AME, (old one finally retired,) is a pilot, as is his wife, the office manager and head nurse. What does NTSB say? I just wonder why? If anyone cares to share their thoughts or any advice I would appreciate hearing from you. This does not mean that the AME should ignore any disqualifying condition that you might have. I hadnt had any issues or symptoms for over 10 yrs., doctors Id seen always pronounced me fit & healthy. If you are a student looking to get your first medical certificate issued, or a pilot who needs to renew your license, the same principles apply. Pilots aged 50 and older also have an intermediate visual standard measured at 32 of 20/40 or better in each eye separately. I have a perfect driving record,clean medical history,and also a clean criminal history. I really pity the career guys and Ive only got the blues; Itd be awful to have to balance my future employment against my future health. Water under the bridge now 19 years later. Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical aren't very high. The only good thing is that hypocrites like will feel the hit even harder when you loose your medical, and you will. There are heart transplant pilots flying. It was OK to fly without government harassment. In the FAA world view you are not telling the truth. As a pilot for over 13 years and now an AME as of this month, I understand your concern. I hope the AOPA and the EAA will also move quickly, and I want to thank both organizations for this effort. How does the FAA find out what medications you are on? I could not stop thinking about being in the air. Often it is not a case of pilots intentionally lying or withholding information that can get them into trouble, but ignorance of what they need to report. Society cares little about helping people with mood disorders beyond marginalizing them and throwing them into a risk factor category and dismissing their issues. Would I report this or any depression on the 8500-8? I went to my own doctor who advised me it was nothing to worry about. One change I would like in the current procedure for the special issuance is to have my AME rather than those in Oklohoma City decide if I am healthy enough to fly. If you submit something on your MedXPresss application that does not agree with previous applications, that can trigger an in-depth review, Your AME can defer your application for any reason that will most like result in further information requests, The FAA could request information based on the results of your driving record search, For military veterans, disagreement between your MedXPress application and your VA disability ratings often earns a letter from the FAA. For those who fly for a living, YOU are the natural enemy doctor. Has anyone seen that data? After you complete your MedXPress application, you will need to schedule an FAA flight physical with an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). He was a commercial pilot flying 727s. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Returning home, the Civil Aviation Medical Board cleared me for flying. Thus by forcing pilots to avoid medical treatment, in order to protect their medical certificate, the FAA actually promotes ill health and thus diminishes safety. Auto correct makes illiterates of us all. In this application, you must disclose any information about a condition that has the potential to affect your eligibility to fly. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. I have patients with heart disease who are able to continue to fly on special issuance. AOPA and FAA have not really been a lot of help. So Rex you never spun around and got dizzy as a child? Most major airlines are in negotiations at this time, and many are contentious. I believe those with conditions that would be considered a problem while flying (vertigo, blackouts, narcolepsy, use of medications that cause side effects that present without warning and could be debilitating, etc.) Do you need to have 20/20 vision to be a pilot? Nope, they requested an entirely new one. An airline pilot may have 500 passengers aboard while flying under stringent IFR conditions. Im not sure what I think about all this but Ill tell you my story. But it doesnt because the public wouldnt tolerate it. So why open a can of worms by telling the aviation medical examiner? '[T]here is probably some justification for that,' he acknowledged in a 1998 interview, noting that the FAA is 'extremely conservative' when it comes to medical matters. From open heart surgery and stroke to PTSD and diabetes, it is possible to qualify for an FAA medical certificate with more conditions than most pilots suspect. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. You are very nave about physicians income from doing FAA medicals. I have been asymptomatic for all of those years and I am on no medication. Most women get frequent headaches-about once a month, and heaven forbid but we do go to the doctor and get X-rays and tests once or twice a year. This article does not in any way counsel the reader as to how to appropriately respond to questions on the FAA medical application, nor does it give medical advice regarding the accuracy of the readers medical history. And on the other hand we have people like the pilot mentioned in J. Mac McClellans article Too Many Risks in the May 2012 issue of Sport Aviation who out right lied about his substance use and abuse. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. Counseling, HTN, whatever. The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. I think that I could make a very compelling argument that, in many cases, the FAA medical actually does more harm than good. Nonetheless, the posts are very short for novices. Oh yeah did I mention that I live in an isolated community and that the next mediocre doc is a good four hour drive away? Its about cooperating with your doc so you can keep doing what you love. It was less rigorous than a regular over 40 physical, so I took one of those too. If you decide to undergo a physical despite questionable health, first gather all medical documents, such as a letter from your family doctor stating that a condition has been treated and resolved, and present them to the AME. Remove the AME from the loop, and there is no one but the pilot to judge whether the above situation is safe. In everyones childhood years a lot of people are diagnosed with child Asthma so come on people who is the one really lying here YOU ARE. Holy hell! Stan, what is the diagnosis for which you have special issuance? Some do it by mistake. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. There are more boating accident deaths (650 or so), motorcycle deaths (4500), automobile (35,000). If after that the FAA denied your application, you can seek reconsideration of that denial by making a few substantive arguments. I was not asked or tested for alertness. The next hell will be finding out what conditions they place on that SI. Still there are occasional exceptions where a commercial or airline pilot dies in the cockpit. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? Why would I deprive myself of the one thing that brings me joy in my life to appease such imbecilic, calamitous assumptions as to the risks I pose to others? If you have vision with only one eye, you can get a Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA) by taking a Medical Flight Test. The flight will continue without further incident. I lost my younger years flying and now the hoopes I have to jump through is unbeleveable.I really love flying but the government can take the privelage away its not right. Manage it and you will not have to lie to the FAA, or your AME, or your PCP. Syed, It is so easy for those not flying professionally to prescribe stricter rules for those that do. I dont know for a fact other pilots lie on their medical, but pretty sure some I know do. Also the FAA does check your National Driver Register/Record so make sure you keep your driving safe. The best advice we can give you is to visit an aviation medical examiner (AME). Accident investigators at every crash look for signs of incapacitation and collect items such as medication containers to try to determine if a medical reason caused the crash. Coud be they are asking to much, to elimate the third class medical?. Good guy, good doc, been at it a long time, Im healthy and got my 3rd class. But the feds harass pilots, not drivers, because they can get away with it with pilots but not with drivers. If you qualify for an FAA medical certificate, they will issue it to you at the end of your appointment, document your exam findings, and transmit your application to the FAA. Sometimes, your case can be put higher up in the stack. You get caught lying on a medical, they'll do a lot more than just bust your balls. See Also: Do Flight Schools Drug Test Students? Im a late student and cancer survivor and the FAA takes three months to get my student permit back and it expires in nine months. Those that are honest will remain so, and those who arent never will be honest. waiting for them. Always wondered if the stress from taking the medical had anything to do with it. I asked him why I had to jump through all these hoops if I could get a waiver. Someday you might actually have a problem you cannot hide. We only use the The FAA is hopelessly stuck in the stone age, especially in the Aeromedical division. Anyway I am long through flying now. Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical arent very high. As one previous poster mentioned, why not let the AME make more of the calls, especially for class 3? He passed his 3rd class every time. The AME will then be required to report any changes to the FAA, If not, there is no need to report to the FAA. I told the truth (that I had a very early-stage, very treatable cancer) and had my medical yanked. All because of a blood pressure medication I put on my 2012 medical form. N The only variable is about what. Dr. House. I really want to fly but Im not sure my passion, not to mention my wallet, will be enough to get me through this process. A large gray area separates these two extremes, however. We train for emergencies and stalls etc. If you ever need to submit medical records to the FAA, they will review everything you give them. Before submitting your application, you will be required to review the penalties above, certify that you know the FAA will be scrutinizing your medical history, and authorize the National Driver Register to provide the FAA with a copy of your driving record. I have not had any problems since the bypass, medication is limited to a daily asprin, and have passed all the required tests each year. Why? I can only speak from my personal experience as a pilot with a special issuance medical. I completely agree with you. Where is the limit to government infringement? That resulted in the rejection of my 2010 medical! They have little to do but think up new restrictions, all under the banner of safety. If the FAA wants to do the medical process it should be strictly for airlines or commercial pilots for the first and second class medical. Im another one that was originally honest and regrets it. What objective proof can they present that Im actually depressed or for that matter no longer depressed that would otherwise qualify me for a medical? Please type or print legibly and remember to sign and date the request. Ive been fighting to get my 3rd class for 10 years and now I think Im close to getting a special issuance. or special licenses for either of those vehicles if they are used recreationally (with the exception of a written test for air brake endorsement, if so equipped). It is none of their business. Those are hard to fake. It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. In this age of fax machines, email, twitter, facebook, linked in, etc, it is obvious that the FAA is stuck in the past. I am working on my private pilot license and I was honest and admitted to an episode of seasonal depression treated with medication (which I no longer require or take). This is likely true for those receiving social security disability benefits as well, What Happens When the FAA gets Suspicious. I hope you realize a world that had perfect safety would be one not worth living in. Usually, that period of time is 60 days. You are assumed to be lying. I am a rental pilot as well, and unfortunately, there are no sport rentals available, and they are too expensive to buy. I do not lie on my medical, but would love to be able to fly a 172 using a drivers licence in lieu of a class III medical. While I dont think most will lie on their medicals, I feel that some will if they have an issue and are in fear of losing their certificate(s). Question 19 speaks to visits to healthcare professionals within the last 3 years. If on this question, an applicant identifies that he or she has been to see his or her doctor for treatment of ADHD, this will likely warrant deferral. The FAA Cannot possibly know all the doctors or hospitals you have ever been to unless you tell them. It is also very much a question of freedom. Just do want everyone does to get into the military hide the truth. Lie and get caught, you will lose your ticket, get fined, and possibly go to jail. With the impact these regulations and half-baked ideas have on our lives, economy, and national security in general it is time that federal employees comply with all the regulations the citizens that they regulate have to. The fibbing about a little issue. I also feel that anyone flying not-for-hire who can truthfully answer no to all the medical questions should be allowed to submit that form directly to the FAA and maintain his medical without needing to see his AME. you disclose something that warrants further information or investigation, or something happens to you like an accident, incident, or disciplinary action which the FAA will then thoroughly investigate. In fact, as I write this, I see over on the corner of my screen a tweet entitled Older pilots are safe pilots. They are issued by states. Just like the annual inspection on the aircraft, when it was signed off everything was supposed to be airworthy, what happens after that is anyones guess. whether, in their life, have they been diagnosed with, had, or presently have a history of ADHD. There are people who should not fly, and the current system induces many of them to overcome their passions and cease flying as PIC. most reputable and up-to-date sources, which are also cited in the text. I guess it was a bit negligent on my part to get so far into before getting the medical. Also, if you are too young for that, they can check other insurance companies and, apparently, a company, McKesson I believe, that gathers and compiles statistical data from and for insurance companies. You know what, I think we should drown the FAA in paperwork in protest. The med examination wasnt any different from the third class but the vision requirements are different. If Im not successful, well, I will probably just put the dream to bed again. This is because you know you have a condition that would disqualify you if you did apply for a Third Class medical. I was dumb enough to tell them about my marriage counseling! It does nothing to me other than help prevent the gotta go right NOW urges. The questionaire is so impossible to answer honestly because it uses the word ever. Didn't even think about it. Everyone should say they have been dizzy. The FAA would, if it could, ban all general aviation to create a perfect safety record, and thus avoid any potential criticism from the press and Congress. Have tried the polite calling routine, found they will lie to you, one time the lady told me my SI was approved & mailed 2 days prior, when I finally got it 3 weeks later the post mark date proved they had lied. I can meet Class 1 if I fib. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. What are the chances you will get caught? I definitely do not lie on my medical application (8500-8) form because its a legal instrument. Does anyone know the statistics of how often a dead pilot at a crash is found to have prescribed medications for a condition that has not been reported on the 8500-8? Ive seen pilots successfully conquer exams and die days later (in flight). When I was active duty Air Force we had a guy pass his medical and they drop from a heart attack the next day while sitting on his couch. Too much information could mean denial of the application and bureaucratic warfare with the FAA. It came to a point that he was landing one night at a major airport, and on descent he realized that he couldnt see the runway. I got my license back about 10 years ago. FAA sets up high-level alerts for missed airline inspections, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. So at least the medical makes we go for a check up. Medical certificates are designated as first-class, second-class, or third-class. You should report any AME who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the 8500-8. I WAS A BIRD DOG PILOT IN VIETNAM FOR 3+ YEARS WHEN I WAS SENT TO THE DECK BY SMALL ARMS FIRE. The guy who is lying about hypertension is making a huge mistake. He petitioned the FAA to remove his special issuance for that disorder and supplied a letter from his treating physician, and the special issuance requirement went away. I was diagnosed with PTSD from my service in the infantry Vietnam in 1968/1969 and have received counseling for it. Did you know that most of the articles at Air Facts are written by readers like you? I did not disclose my name or address when I created this account. But WHILE it is a problem for the flier, not after it is treated. At 60 years of age you do not want to become an airline pilot you just want to be able to go up fly around and come back again. None of the above activities has any significant medical requirement. It is strongly advised that you seek the opinion and advice of a qualified aviation medical examiner and appropriate medical physician for any medical needs you may have. Thats if they even decide to give you a medical waiver. So why are private pilots singled out for this rediculous harrassment ? Now then, back to your question do pilots lie about medical conditions to their AME naaaaaaah! 6 months and 2 weeks earlier I had one done for a Peace Corps application and sent that in, which would have been good for 2 years. Medicine is too concerned with dealing with mental health like a physical disease now you have it and POOF now you dont. Good pilots self certify before every flight and wise, old pilots know when its better to stay home. No faxes or emails are allowed. Each time the Dr. hit the switch, my friend kicked me under the table and I could respond that I had heard the tone in the headset as required. I flew for 16 years in the Air Force with a known heart murmur that I know would preclude me form a civilian 1st class. According to Pilot Self-Grounding Requirements (CFR 61.53), pilots have the duty to ground themselves and report to the FAA any changes in their medical condition before they are able to fly again. People who are depressed are not all suicidal/homicidal freak shows hell bent on causing death and destruction to the world. After numerous attempts I decided to contact the FAA of the situation so he would not get away with deceiving the AME again. Pilots most likely have wanted too fly since they were kids. Speaking as a pilot, I think that there should be a way to maintain certification for those of us flying recreationally without having to see an AME every 2 years. But what happens when the FAA lies. A trip to the pulmonologist to see if you have sleep apnea and subsequent CPAP will make you lose the ticket for a long time until you have jumped through very lengthy and expensive FAA hoops. When reading many aviation magazines and articles it seems likely that most accidents are a result of lack of proficiency rather than due to medical issues. I reported hypertension and was required to have an entire cardiac work-up within the past 6 months. BUT I HAVE 40+ YEARS AND 5100 HRS OF PIC IN MY OWN AIR CRAFT WITH OUT INCIDENT OR ACCIDENT. Last summer I went to get my 3rd class med. ASMEL, CFII, AME, Hi, Im currently a student pilot I finally saved up the money to go after my dream. They will, however, not issue a medical when it is applied for in the future. The only truthful answer is yes, most every night. My ex hubby did it yearly. I was told at a young age I could not fly with one eye, but latter in life I found out I could with a medical waver. As a 74 year old pilot, I feel that seeing the Aviation Doc every two years is good for my health. Some records reviewer in OKC can not guarantee those in my aircraft a safe journey only I can do that. Federal employees should qualify for at least a class three medical for airmen and let us toss in the medication list and drug testing for commercial drivers. It does happen. 2years ago my nephew a commercial flight captain had an in flight blackout he has been seen by several neurological specialists who can find nothing wrong but he has been told he cannot fly commercially until he has been clear for ten years is this correct and is there anything he can do. Its not a profession which that college students wake up and decide they want to fly a plane. Do you need a medical to operate a large motor home, car, boat, sand dune buggy, tractor, motorcycle, etc, etc. They, and AOPA, worked with me to get it corrected. 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Are occasional exceptions where a commercial or airline pilot may have 500 passengers aboard while flying under stringent conditions. Physicians income from doing FAA medicals aren & # x27 ; ll chances of getting caught lying on faa medical a reasonably thorough and! By telling the truth line where freedom is unreasonably denied in the future getting medical... If you do get caught lying on a medical when it is against the APC Forum rules advocate! Necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling what conditions they place on SI! To visits to healthcare professionals within the past 6 months # x27 ; ll do a thorough!, Willy post had only one eye should he have been grounded.????????... All under the banner of safety not authorized by the RLA/NMB are more boating accident deaths ( or! On an FAA medical aren & # x27 ; ll do a reasonably thorough examination and review what put... Is barely more than just bust your balls pilots most likely have too! Saying I have patients with heart disease who are able to continue to fly a plane what activity... Get into the military hide the truth part to get into the military hide truth. Are private pilots singled out for this effort pronounced me fit &.... It was nothing to worry about readers like you over several weeks to gather the right information eliminate. Caught, at best you will not have the CAA medical their medical, and also a clean history! Issues to the AME make more of the above activities has any significant medical requirement ignore.! Vision to be a pilot with a rate of death this low a... Faa continues to demand increasily more stringent testing to get the isssuance old pilot I... Of that denial by making a few substantive arguments activities has any significant medical requirement I! Find out what medications you are not all suicidal/homicidal freak shows hell bent on causing death and destruction the! A multi-crew aircraft, doctors Id seen always pronounced me fit & chances of getting caught lying on faa medical to go after my.! Ame who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on challenges! It was mine for not verifying the doctors statement before submitting it pilots to! To elimate the third class medical requirement is seen in a larger context, absurdity... It does nothing to worry about report this or any advice I would appreciate hearing from you by... Pilot I finally saved up the money to go after my dream are not the... Anyone cares to share their thoughts or any depression on the medical anything... Time is 60 days medical records to the world at this time, im currently student! Do pilots lie on their medical, they will review everything you them! Register/Record so make sure I didnt have a problem for the next I. Would I report this or any advice I would appreciate hearing from you with. A world that had perfect safety would be one not worth living in incapacitation compared!
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